“Demanding that golf instruction be kept simple does not make it simple — only incomplete and ineffective.” – Homer Kelley “The Golfing Machine”
Knowing how to isolate or compartmentalize different parts of the swing is important. This allows us to measure any changes that are/have been made and also as mentioned helps isolate a part of the swing to make it easier to comprehend and learn.
If you can learn and compartmentalize these areas, then layer them on top of one another (essentially chunking them together) the whole thing is easier to learn.
I first came across this method a number of years ago after diving deep into the rabbit hole.
I came across “The Golfing Machine” by Homer Kelley, this lead me to Mac O Grady and eventually to Mike Bennett and Andy Plummer.
I also found other guys on the interwebs who were talking in slang. Using terms like “I like your P2, but your P4 has to be better to improve your P5“!…. Come again?..
What I found was, there are 10 positions widely used in the teaching world as a way of measuring the effectiveness of a golf swing.
They are as follows: P = Position
P1: Address
P2: Club Shaft Parallel With Ground On Takeaway
P3: Lead Arm Parallel With Ground
P4: Top of Backswing
P5: Lead Arm Parallel With Ground on Downswing
P6: Club Shaft Parallel With Ground on Downswing
P7: Impact
P8: Club Shaft Parallel With Ground on Follow-Through
P9: Trail Arm Parallel With Ground on Follow-Through
P10: Finish
Watch the full video below, and leave me a comment if you have any questions.
Enjoyed your analysis of a great golf swing of one of the legends of golf. I could see similarities between Mac O’Grady’s swing and Ben Hogan’s swing especially at the top (P4) where their backs are fairly vertical while facing the target i.e. spine angle towards the target. Also, for the swing between P7 and P10, I was interested in the front foot during and after contact. My impression is that Ben Hogan kept his left foot on the ground and was flat on his left foot at the finish. Mac appears to have the same well balanced finish with perhaps a bit more weight on the left side of his left foot.
Comparing these two legendary ball strikers to Jordan Speith, I notice that Jordan is rolled over on the left edge of his golf shoe through the hitting area to the finish position. Be interested in your thoughts on whether this characteristic of Jordan’s full swing is a problem area i.e. will it affect accuracy of his shots?
Hi Jim, great question.
I actually started working with a guy named Damon Goddard (http://www.ampdgolffitness.com/) last year out here in Dallas, who is Jordan Speiths fitness coach. He’s very knowledgeable about the biomechanics side and I asked him about Jordans left foot roll. He said it’s not something they work on. But did add that it would obviously affect his attachment with the ground from an efficiency point of view.
I think a lot of what Jordan works on has to do with his excellent rhythm and outstanding manual dexterity (his hands). The last thing his trainers/coaches would want to do is start introducing more and more things to work on and he falls into the trap of paralysis by analysis. Yes, his left foot roll isn’t that efficient. But his patient transition and hand control throughout the move more than makes up for it.
Very detailed analysis. The video is great. Thank you. Enjoyed your analysis of a great golf swing of one of the legends of golf.
Thanks Dominic, agreed!
Did Mac O’grady ever write his book?Thanks
Hey James, I haven’t come across any book from Mac O Grady. I think the closest thing you’ll find to MORAD is Stack and Tilt as Mike and Andy worked under him.
Thanks for stopping by,
James
Just recently introduced to the infamous ‘Mac’ – the compartmentalization you identify is indeed helpful in breakind down the parts of the swing that need correction.
However, are stack and tilt’ish patterns the answer? How many version of the golf swing are there? It feels good, seems relatively simple, and easier to analyse, but is the this the best option?? if we are lucky enough to make it down to low single digit indices, then any swing patter is possible. What makes Mac’s so good – not criticizing, truly wondering.
I am a 2 cap, always looking to ‘simplify’ the game, and still don’t feel like i’m understanding the ‘it’ in making more consistent shots all round. is Mac’s system a better way to diagnose and refine you think?
Particularly I find P2-4 tough. Moving the arms in and up is what it feels like to follow Mac’s thinking, but couldn’t we just lift the club up to that nice spot?
Wow, you’ve certainly found a character if there ever was one! Stack and Tilt is just a brand name Mike Bennett and Andy Plummer came up with to create and build a brand in golf instruction. I haven’t found any flaws with it so far. It’s very in depth so it’s no surprise they used to work under Mac O Grady earlier in their career. if you want to go even deeper I’d study ‘The Golfing Machine’ By Homer Kelley. However, It will probably drive you mad (as it has me..). In my opinion S&T is a modern way of going about what Homer Kelley and then Mac learned and then coached, and the book is pretty easy to digest.
As for p2-p4.. There’s obviously a few ways to go about it – and it takes some trial and error. You can allow the hand to lead the body, or the body to lead the hands. Basically a swinger or a hitter. A swinger lets the hands lead the body going back and a hitter lets the body (pivot) lead the hands. There’s numerous examples of this when you look and the different patterns of the Pros on tour.
Hope that helps
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I have been playing golf since the age of 12. I am 44 now. I was tired of inconsistency and told myself that If I want to continue to play this game and make it enjoyable, then I need to really work on my swing. I have always had a tendency to “dump” it at impact. In other words, early extension. As you know, early extension can cause all sorts of problems. Yes, I may catch it good every once in a while, but the inconsistency was never there. I recently took a lesson with Jodie Mudd and my ball striking has drastically improved. I am Finally compressing the ball. However, I am far from getting where I need to be. After swinging the wrong way for so many years, it is going to take tons of practice. I truly believe in Mac’s swing theory. People need to really analyze his swing and study it. There are so many similarities to Hogan’s swing!
For me right now, I am mainly focusing on keeping the hands ahead at address and impact , maintaining steady head, making sure I transfer weight to the left side and maintain the spine angle. I think maintaining the correct spine angle will help eliminate my early extension. I think Tom Watson said he believed that the spine angle/plane and keeping the head down are the keys to a great golf swing. Again,these are fundamentals seen in Mac’s teachings.
Keep up the good work James. I love your videos. They are really helping me.
thank you Jodie
Cheers.
Hi Austin, thanks for taking the time to comment on my blog. If you’re struggling with extending your spine too early on the downswing – take a look at this https://www.jamesparkergolf.com/improve-your-timing-by-regaining-flexion/
Let’s say you’re bent forward 40 degrees at setup, by the time you get to the top of your backswing your spine will have extended backwards around 40 degrees to zero your out. From the top (p4) down to p6 your spine should then be flexing back forward to assume a similar bend to setup. It’s only after p6 that the spine should start extending..
Hope that helps
JP
Is there a book or guidance on all these positions that I could read?
Hi Kevin, I’d read the stack and tilt swing and take some lessons at Golftec.
Hi James, what was your or Mac’s views on chipping/pitching?
Haven’t found any in-depth videos/commentary on getting around the greens unless it’s practicing p2-p8.
Hi Gary,
James Sieckmann has a lot of good info. Here’s his site https://jsegolfacademy.com/
Great walkthrough video of every poison in P series found here, John worked with Mac for 4 years https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8vh1tinBp8Si23lifM_63xpt9Vg7GEX9
Good stuff! Thanks Larry.